Who I am Allowed to Associate With

(Section 3 of Part 4 – My Final Days)

One of the things I wrote near the end of my doubt formula, and something that I told both the HAS and the DSA, was that, along with my decision to withdraw my support of the church, I was also no longer going to let the church dictate who I could or could not speak to, work or associate with in the future.

I’m not talking about forcing myself onto people still in the church who decided to disconnect from me.  If someone no longer would want to communicate with me, then I was willing to let that be their choice.

What I was referring to was people who had been declared as SPs by the church.  I was not going to disallow myself to connect up with someone in the future just because the church said that person was an SP.  I now knew that I did not trust the church’s judgment of who was a good person and who was a bad person.  The church had already shown me that they were a bad judge of character and that they would declare anyone who did not agree with David Miscavige’s agenda.

I told them that I was the one who would judge who I would become friends with and who I would not become friends with in the future and whether or not the church had declared them SP or not would have absolutely no bearing on my choice.

Since then I have met many people who used to be in the church.  Some of them still practice Scientology outside of the church and some don’t.  All of the people I have met so far have been good, caring, well-intentioned people.  None of them are anything close to an SP.  I will associate with anyone who is respectful to me and my opinions and viewpoints regardless of whether theirs agree with mine or not.

Next…How I Left – How We Got Declared

4 thoughts on “Who I am Allowed to Associate With

  1. Looking 4 Myself says:

    Oh my God Dave, you mean to tell me you had the intestinal fortitude to tell the HAS that you have the audacity to use (GASP) self-determinism??? For shame! *sarcasm off*

  2. The Oracle says:

    Good for you.

  3. ashura jr says:

    Seriously, Dave, the notion that you can speak to and have relationships with whomever you want is, well, human. SP’s don’t exist except in the walled off and screwed up world of Scientology.

    I mean, what is an SP anyway? Someone who disagrees with you? Someone who might say negative things? Guess what? We all have to deal with such people. And often we have to live and work and actually try to find ways to get along with such folk. This is what gets me about Scientology. How do people come to think that they have to choose between their wife and their “church”? Or their children or siblings or old friends or parents? It makes no sense. No data needed either to figure this one out.

  4. davefagen says:


    Thank you for your viewpoint. I agree with you in many ways. I agree that you and I can have relationships with whoever we want and nobody has a right to demand that we do not. I agree with you that when someone disagrees with you that does not make them a bad person, it does not mean that you should disconnect from them. The only way to get along in this world is to really get to know and understand people and live and work with them, as you say. I feel that if more people would do that, the world would be a better place, and I have the utmost respect for people, such as you from what I can tell from your comment, who can still see the value in people, even when they disagree with them.

    I think that everyone has their own history and experiences and basic individuality that contributes to the molding of their viewpoints and opinions. I feel that when someone disagrees with me, it is well worth my time to really dig in and do my best to fully understand what is behind that viewpoint and see if I can learn anything from them. For example, there are a lot of people who I have communicated with since I left the church who vehemently disagree with the Scientology philosophy who, even though I don’t fully agree with everything they say, and they haven’t gotten me to drop Scientology, I know that I can still learn something from them. I have done so quite often since I left and I definitely feel that I am better off having listened to them than I would have been if I had ignored them like the church tells their people to do. Listening to them has increased my understanding of my fellow man.

    I don’t agree with you on a few points. I think that there could be such a thing as an SP, though I am not so sure about the 2 1/2 % figure. This is something I need to make more observations of. David Miscavige is an obvious example, given the details I have read from people who have tried to work with him. He seems to fit the descriptions of an SP more than anyone I have ever heard of.

    The actual Hubbard teachings do not say that an SP is someone who disagrees with you or who says negative things, even though the church has altered it to mean someone who disagrees with or someone who says negative things about Scientology, and I do believe that Hubbard may have contributed to that alteration in some of his actions against people who criticized Scientology. But if you combine the basic understandings of those references and combine that with your own integrity, you can easily see that that is not what an SP is.

    My understanding of what an SP is, is someone who has a majority of the 12 characteristics that Hubbard lists out, none of which are “someone who disagrees with you or says negative things”.

    But more important than that, I feel that an individual has to make his own personal decisions as to whom he should remain connected to and whom he should disconnect from. I think it’s too difficult to know with certainty whether someone is an SP or not, and the best way to judge is to evaluate the influences that the person has over your life and whether or not that person has the capability of changing. I feel that Scientology’s basic teachings can be a guide for that, though not necessarily the only guide available in the world.

    For example, I know someone who recently disconnected from her uncle. I feel it was a very correct decision for her in this situation. Not because the uncle disagreed with her or said bad things. It was just that this guy was impossible to deal with. He never said anything positive and whenever you talked to him, she couldn’t help but feel lousy, she couldn’t say anything that got him to look at another viewpoint, and he just kept piling on the blame and complaining and the posing of unsolvable problems. So she disconnected from him and it was a very nice relief. She had tried over and over for years to make peace, like she had done successfully so many times with so many other people, and this guy just wouldn’t get it.

    Was the guy an SP? Who knows and who cares? She persistently tried her best to handle by normal means that work on most people, and after a while it wasn’t worth it. I feel that a lot of basic points about SPs and the tone scale taught about in Scientology (minus all the arbitrary BS where you are forced to disconnect from your loved ones just because they have differing opinions about Scientology or the so-called “church”) were useful in helping her to decide to disconnect from this uncle, and that is what is important, and that is the kind of thing that I think is useful about the data Hubbard writes about SPs.

    As I said before, if you disagree with me on this, I still respect your viewpoints, especially the parts about how we should learn to understand the people who do not agree with us.

    Thanks again for you comments.


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