What I was Shocked to Find Out About Out-Tech on OT VII

(Section 12 of Part 3 – Why I Left the Church)

For many years I had a fixed idea that RTC, Snr C/S Int Office and the Flag Service Org, could be trusted with the tech.  I began to find out, while looking into what some people (no longer in the church) were saying they experienced while trying to go up their OT Levels, that I was very mistaken.

As part of my gathering information from sources now outside of the church (in order to help resolve my doubts), I saw a video on Youtube where two people, a husband and wife who lived in Clearwater, named Greg and Debbie Barnes, gave a detailed verbal account of severe injustice that they experienced in response to their bringing up a MAJOR point of out-tech that has been occurring in the church for years and years.

I won’t go into full detail of what happened because if you are interested, you watch the video.

But did you know that these “6-month checks” or “refreshers” for OT VIIs, where they get Sec Checked every six months, are out-tech? That is what was pointed out to me on the Barnes’ video. Here’s the reference:

b. Pre-OTs in the area between the beginning of New OT VI (Solo NOTs Auditing Course) and the completion of New OT VII (Solo NOTs) may not receive any other auditing, with the exception of those services allowed in the No-Interference Area (between the start of New OT I and the completion of OT III) for pre-OTs who are stalled or moving slowly. – LRH (HCOB 23 Dec 71RB, Solo Series 10RB, C/S Series 73RB The No-Interference Area Clarified and Reinforced, Subject Volume 1 [in the Tech Vols], page 252)

Now as far as the part saying “…with the exception of those services allowed in the No-Interference Area (between the start of New OT I and the completion of OT III) for pre-OTs who are stalled or moving slowly” is concerned, the same bulletin lists, earlier, what actions are allowed for pre-OTs who are stalled or moving slowly.  However, the section that lists those actions begins with a major qualifying statement before listing which actions are allowable.  I will quote the qualifying statement and the list of allowable actions:

Pre-OTs progressing well in the No-Interference Area should not be interfered with by Sec Checking or anything else.  However, when a pre-OT is stalled or moving slowly, any of the actions listed below, as appropriate, can be ordered by a qualified C/S….

  1. Nonaudited PTS handlings
  2. Confessionals and O/Ws
  3. The handling of postulates, considerations, attitudes, evil purposes or evil intentions (False Purpose Rundown)
  4. Service Fac handling (bracket method only, no R3RA)
  5. Disagreement Checks. – LRH (HCOB 23 Dec 71RB, Solo Series 10RB, C/S Series 73RB The No-Interference Area Clarified and Reinforced, Subject Volume 1 [in the Tech Vols], page 252)

So, sure, that reference does give conditions under which someone who is in progress on OT VII can receive Sec Checking.  However, the way things go in the church, EVERY person on Solo NOTs has to receive Sec Checking every six month REGARDLESS of whether or not they are stalled or moving slowly or they are progressing well.

I just couldn’t, and still can’t, believe that such an obvious violation of an HCOB is not just committed once in a while by a C/S who needs to go to Cramming, but it is ALWAYS done, ALWAYS HAS BEEN DONE as far back as I can remember and EVERY C/S at Flag orders it, EVERY PRE-OT accepts it (or else they cannot move on with their OT VII) and it is known by almost everyone in the church that “this is the way that it’s done”.  In fact, as I write this, I sit in utter disbelief over two years after I found out about the above reference, that the group that I trusted so well (to only apply 100% Standard Tech and to see to it that everyone else does the same), could be involved in perpetrating such a widespread abomination of the tech!

I recommend the Barnes’ video.  When they brought up this fact of out-tech to the appropriate terminals at Flag after seeing the reference, THEY were investigated and harassed, and eventually declared when they refused to pretend that they did not see this out-tech situation.  I always thought that as Scientologists, we were EXPECTED to bring it up and be completely “unreasonable” when we witnessed any instances of out-tech.  And here these people, the Barnes’, were doing just that and they were getting persecuted for it by Sea Org members!

I saw this and I realized that what I thought was my group, was not really interested in the purity of the tech, like I had always thought they were.  I strongly suspected that there was an ulterior motive for having everyone on OT VII automatically having to pay thousands and tens of thousands of dollars for Flag intensives every six months when it is completely out-tech to do so, especially when they were not only unwilling to correct the out-tech but they threatened, libeled and banished two people who were trying to stop it.

And furthermore, I now began to wonder what other blatant, long-term, church-wide out-tech situations were going on that I hadn’t previously realized.

This, I could see, was not the ethical group that I had thought it was for years.

And once again, I have to say that if you suspect that I’ve been hoodwinked by Greg and Debbie Barnes into thinking that “the most ethical group on the planet” was not so ethical, and that I was fooled into withdrawing my support from the only group on the planet that holds any hope for the future of man, you are entitled to that opinion.  But, only if you actually watch the video for yourself and read the references yourself and make your own ethical decision without pretending that you see something differently than the way you actually see it.  Only after you did that would I be willing to respect or discuss your opinion on this matter.

But, in any case, at least now you are getting my side of the story.

Next…The DSA’s Rationale for 6-Month “Refreshers”

10 thoughts on “What I was Shocked to Find Out About Out-Tech on OT VII

  1. Anonymous says:

    6 months checks use to be light and easy. Now it is many many questions and buttons. Whose needle will float on this ? BTW it costs public about 30,000 a year to be on the level. More when you have to do ‘advance programs’ This does not include what it costs to get on the level. It is almost twice the tech estimate.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Also the CS can make you turn into a Solo Sec Checker.

  3. davefagen says:

    Interesting point. But more basic to all that is that the “refreshers” are out-tech and shouldn’t even be being done in the first place.

  4. Ronnie Bell says:

    Dave, I’ve been reading your blog tonight and nodding my head along with every page. I too have discovered all of the things that you have, and have noted the blatant violations of LRH policies which you’ve discussed and referenced.

    I want to thank you for cluing me into a few policies that I either hadn’t seen in ages, or that were new to me. Their applicability in the instances in which you bring them up, is precisely where they should have been applied. I know from reading ex-staff members’ reports on the internet, that in many cases, good people tried their level best to get these policies applied, but like Greg & Debbie Barnes, they were vilified and attacked for doing so.

    Speaking of the Barnes’, I watched their video for the first time a few months ago, during my very first week of openly granting myself the permission to ‘look’. After everything else I’d been astonished by in that first week, that video was perhaps the coup de’ grace. To say that I was knocked off my chair by what they revealed, would be an understatement of magnitude. Reading your take on it, nearly blew me away all over again.

    Finding out the truth of how the church is ripping off OTVIIs by the tens of thousands of dollars annually for that level, makes me want to break…..something. It’s grand larceny on a scale that would make Lucky Luciano proud. They’re positively extorting the life blood out of some of the finest human beings who walk the earth.

    You were right to conclude that every staff member, and every public person who has supported the Miscavige regime, should assign themselves a condition of Treason, and begin the task of salvaging what’s left of their self worth. At least the Independents have taken the first step of regaining their personal honor and integrity by withdrawing their support from that criminal organization, and doing what they can to inform others of the crimes being committed in LRH’s name.

    I just wanted to stop at this point and validate you for the wonderful job you’ve done here. As a personal Declaration of Independence, it’s the best I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen some very good ones.

    Carry on.

  5. davefagen says:


    Thank you for all your great feedback. Your story was also excellent.


  6. Seeker says:

    A further point on the out-tech nature of 6-month checks: Sea Org members on the level (OT VII) do not get 6-month checks. Why not? LOL, cause there’s no money in it, that’s why. 6 month checks are a major source of income – that’s why they stamp on anyone trying to get them to follow HCOBs. It’s all about the $$$$. And unfortunately, the more you look, you’ll find that it’s been that way long before DM took control.

  7. Anonymous says:

    It is about $25,000 a year to be ‘on the level”, times 6000 people, equals $150,000,000 each year for many many years.

  8. Greg Barnes says:

    Dear Dave…Thankyou and all the others who have seen our vdeo for the acknowledgements. It was not easy to do what we did but we are free and hopefully others will be free by seeing the video but most of all the reference(s) that are not being applied.

    All the best….Greg

  9. For a South African to be on the level takes an enormous amount of money. The exchange rate is about R10.50cents to the $1. An intensive at Flag on this level costs a South Africa from R84 000 – R90 000. Then income is lost while they are at Flag, airfare must be paid for, accommodation, food and spending money. Before anyone on OTVII can leave Flag to come home, he/she has to have their next intensive (R80k – R90k) paid for or they’re not allowed to leave.

    If some extra action is CSed that falls outside of this intensive, then borrowing often occurs, of course. Some people stay on the level by the skin of their teeth and/or with much personal sacrifice.

    I know some on OTVII who have been on the level in excess of ten years and others for four, five, six, seven years before they EP.

    If OTVIII costs an American R18k per intensive, it costs a South African R189 000 an intensive, a lot of money in anyone’s language;
    plus the flight, taxes, accommodation, food, spending money and their forfeited income. I’ve known people to be on the Ship on OTVIII for four months, even longer.

  10. davefagen says:


    It’s very much an honor to get a comment from you on my blog. Thank you for helping me and others come to an understanding. I hope to meet you in person someday.


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