“Is Dave Fagen Really an SP?”

Section 1 of Part 5 – Some Things I Have to Say About All This

“Dave isn’t really a suppressive person.  He just went into the valence of a suppressive person.  Someone like Marty Rathbun or Mike Rinder probably got on his lines and they convinced him of their lies and Dave now believes them and thinks he should do what they say he should do.”

I’d say this might be the most common piece of reasonableness that my former church friends are using to explain what happened.  Boy, do I have some things to say about this.

In case you don’t already know, which is a possibility since you may have been forbidden from looking at or reading these things, Marty Rathbun is probably the main guy that the church says is trying to destroy the church and Scientology.  Last I knew there were multitudes of websites put onto the internet, by the church, that are dedicated solely to discrediting Marty Rathbun.  As I said earlier, for months on end there were people (hired by the church) camped out in front of his house in an attempt to harass him into giving up and stopping his claims against COB and current church management.

The church’s problem is in its own back yard, yet so much of the attention is diverted over to Marty Rathbun. “Marty Rathbun this, Marty Rathbun that”. “We have to stop Marty Rathbun”.  Never mind the fact that the church rarely produces auditors and there is no way there is going to be a cleared planet with the horrifically low volume of auditors that are being made in the church.  Never mind the fact that millions and millions of dollars of church members’ money is being wasted on non-viable buildings with not enough public on lines to fill them up and with huge property taxes and with the orgs still having to pay rent to management for having these buildings even though management didn’t pay for them.  Never mind how the “Ideal Org” program blatantly violates policy.  Never mind the gross out-tech and arbitraries that I have mentioned already.

Never mind the amount of OTs dying of cancer.  Does anyone want to know what is causing this huge contradiction to “Cause Over Life”?  Is anyone in the church asking why these tragedies have occurred?  Does anyone want to know why some Sea Org members have committed suicide?

No, let’s all look “over there”.  Let’s all blame it on Marty Rathbun.  And let’s claim that anyone who thinks something is wrong with the church is doing so because of Marty Rathbun. He was only at the top management levels of the Sea Org for over 25 years.  If he’s such an SP, if he’s the cause of so many of the church’s problems, and if he can cause good people to want to leave the church, why wasn’t the fact that he is an SP found out before?  There’s references on how to detect an SP conclusively.  Why did COB talk him into coming back into the SO after he blew in the mid 1990s?  Did he suddenly become an SP recently?  If so, what SP’s valence could he possibly have gone into while he was at the upper levels of management in the Sea Org, the “most ethical group on the planet”?  Why was he permitted to audit Tom Cruise and other celebrities?  If he was such an SP, why hasn’t there been a recovery of stats since he and Mike Rinder left? AND – WHY AREN’T YOU ASKING THESE QUESTIONS?

Or are you?  If you are, continue, and get your questions answered and don’t buy any glib PR.  Get the real stats.

Also, even if Marty Rathbun is the horrible SP that some have made him out to be – SO WHAT!!  Do we not have the tech to handle SPs?  Why isn’t it being applied?  Why is Marty Rathbun being made out to be so powerful that he is causing our problems in the church and we can’t handle him?  He’s such a powerful SP that he can influence even the most long-term, well-intentioned, dedicated staff members to leave the church under so-called deviously false pretenses, and the Office of Special Affairs and HCO are unable to come up with a handling on these staff members to handle their so-called PTSness?  We’ve all done the PTS / SP course how many times?  We all say that we know the tech works.  What are you being told about the “handling” that was done on me, to get me to “come to my senses” and decide how foolish it would be for me to leave the church?  Are you being told, “We did a standard dead-agent handling on Dave but he was so PTS that the handling ‘didn’t work’”?

I don’t have to tell you the policy that talks about “didn’t work”, do I?  Why aren’t you asking what exactly was done in this handling and pulling the string on how it “didn’t work”?  Are you leaving it up to the Office of Special Affairs and Int Management to handle it?  Do you have it all worked out that it’s all being taken care of and you don’t have to take any responsibility for the fact that you have a long-term staff member who helped people for 25 years now declared a Suppressive Person, when you know that he isn’t a Suppressive?  Why would you trust an entity that could allow such a contradiction to happen, and be satisfied with it?

If you are trusting the HCO network to take care of it all, I suggest you take another look.  I’ve already mentioned several gross omissions of LRH policy being applied on HCO Justice. You know that people who you had always thought were good people, who you knew were on your side, are now declared.  One of HCO’s responsibilities is to clear the way of out-ethics so that expansion can occur.  If you really look at things with your own two eyes, you can see that expansion is not occurring at a viable pace despite the fact that “SPs” have been gotten off the lines.  Why is HCO using Marty Rathbun as an excuse for their lack of ability to handle?

And as far as OSA is concerned, well if you look at the org board VFP of Department 20, you will see that it is, “Handled situations which result in the total acceptance of Scientology and its founder throughout the area.”

After I had actually taken the plunge and started reading about Scientology on the Internet, I noticed something in addition to the typical things that you aren’t supposed to know about.  I was stunned at the amount of horrible PR that the church has.  I know, you probably think I’m just generalizing because I’ve gone into the SP valence, but if you think that, I say you are being “reasonable”, because in order for you to determine the truth or falseness for yourself, you have to take a look for yourself and not be afraid to find out.

Just take a look for yourself if you dare.  Sure, some of the stuff you can read about what people say about Scientology and the tech are not true or they are written by people who don’t understand.  Some.  But the point I’m making is that there is a huge volume of hatred and venom directed at the Church of Scientology and at L Ron Hubbard, not to mention mere criticism.  It is not hard to find at all.  Even if every bit of it were a total lie, what does that tell you about the Office of Special Affairs?  THEY ARE NOT GETTING THEIR PRODUCT!

Why aren’t you holding them accountable and finding out what they are doing so as to have such an abysmal lack of effectiveness?

How long has Anonymous been marching out in front of the org every month in their creepy-looking masks?  Four years?  Does that not make you wonder how it could be that our trusted Office of Special Affairs hasn’t taken effective action or gotten their PR in, so that these guys don’t keep coming back?  Or are you just certain that they have it all under control and you have nothing to worry about because they are there, they just need more time and more money?

And while I’m on the concept of looking “over there”, don’t you think it’s an outpoint that the church events are talking about huge accomplishments and global impact on a wide scale, but most of it is “over there”? You go to your own org and you see that it is relatively empty most of the time.  Oh yes, Sunday’s are the busiest days and it feels pretty good when the courseroom has 15-20 people in it on Sundays.  But where is the global impact?  You are told that everything is great wherever you are not.  Do you really think that it’s possible?  Well, if you do that’s fine, but it is an outpoint that you ought to be looking into.  Why would you trust a management that has so much blatant violations of tech and policy as has been stated here, which you may have noticed yourself, and if you didn’t, you should have?

I came to my conclusion that the church was not something I was willing to support any longer, even though I knew I would lose some of my friends, after doing a very thorough examination of all the data because I realized that the supposed need for protection from dangerous information is a falsehood.  Yes, Marty Rathbun’s data was a part of the sources of my information, and his information was important, but it a very relatively small part in terms of quantity of information.  There is no way that his and a handful of other people’s information about things that went on at the Int base behind the scenes, things that I couldn’t see for myself, would have caused me to make such a controversial decision.  There was too much evidence from too many people, numbering in the thousands, and too much evidence that I could see with my own eyes, for me to pretend that the church is the ethical organization I had always thought it was.

Also, not to single out Marty Rathbun – this goes for any of the people who are speaking out against COB and the current management of the church.  The same logic applies.  Most of them were in the Sea Org for over 25 years.  Use real logic to determine whether you can buy the idea that they are all just SPs or PTSes just saying all these bad things because they are just bitter that they aren’t allowed to participate, due to their incompetence, in the exciting lifestyle of an Int Management exec who is really being successful in clearing the planet.

Next…“Let’s Blame It All on Sindy”

7 thoughts on ““Is Dave Fagen Really an SP?”

  1. Looking 4 Myself says:

    Dave,
    I don’t speak for anyone but myself when I say of all the staff members I have gotten to know over the years you are the one that has more integrity than any of the others I have gotten to know.
    And I feel anyone who has known you at least as long as I have would probably have no questions or doubts about your personal integrity. Hell you have even got my ethics in before and I always felt I have a pretty high ethics level!
    I too have done my own data evaluation of the current scene within the church and its uncanny how many of the conclusions you have drawn about what’s going on parallel mine. I have now read too many doubt formulas by ex church members to believe it’s only a handful of SP’s or people who are PTS to SP’s leveling the wide array of reasons for leaving the church.
    But you are the first Scientologist I have personally known to do so and I must tell you I have no doubt that what you say happened actually did happen. The strange part about it is that I was predicting you saying everything you did say throughout this article before I even read it.
    You were one of the most dedicated staff members I have known in any org anywhere and that’s saying a lot because I know quite a few dedicated staff members.
    It doesn’t surprise me in the least that you and Sindy were the first in the org to wake up and see what is really happening in the church at present.Or at least the first to see it see it and have the integrity to do what you felt was the right thing to do and not be reasonable about it.
    Bill Moore

  2. davefagen says:

    Hey Bill, I guessed right, it was you.

    Thanks for all those kind words. This blog is for you to give to anyone who will read it.

    Dave

  3. davefagen says:

    Thank you for those kind words Bill.

  4. The Oracle says:

    You have to ask yourself this, If Marty is an SP on David’s lines, why hasn’t David done the suppressed person rundown for the benefit of all? If Mike is the SP on David’s lines, why hasn’t David done the suppressed person rundown for the benefit of all? Something does not add up here right?

    Moreover, David Miscavige himself has not denied any of the claims against him. Other’s have, But not David.

    All of this noise is about DAVID. NOT Scientology. The noise coming from this court.

    If David can not come forward and deny the allegations, and if David will not pick up the cans, and his solution to suppression is home invasion and neighborhood invasion, isn’t that an outpoint?

    If David has not been able to handle, David does not want to handle.

    If David has not been a solution, David has been a problem.

    David knows an old trick. He has it used it to make millions upon millions of dollars for himself via the I.A.S.. It’s the old, “They are out to get us” trick that acts as a glue to hold a group together.

    When you can not hold a group together through camaraderie, purpose, goals, enthusiasm. victory, and all of the aesthetics reasons people should bond to begin with. You hold people together through re stimulation. David uses Marty in this way.

    Beyond that, nobody at Int has had the courage to take David to a doctor to find out if he is mentally competent and in decent health. Anyone else running a large corporation is committing to regular health check ups to determine their fitness. I strongly suspect, David Miscavige has some alarming degenerative medical issues that will remove him from this arena if nothing else does with in the next three years.

  5. Anonymous says:

    Let us hope that he is replaced.

  6. TrustMeOnThis says:

    “Never deny. Only attack.”
    Also, I can’t see DM agreeing to ever be screened, certainly not for mental health issues, and probably not for physical stuff either (not that that’s what it is anyway).
    What a mess. I have a friend who joined years ago when LRH was still alive, for “pray the gay away” services. As with others making such claims, it didn’t work. Thankfully my friend got out and is now very happy. But it makes me sad to see such widescale exploitation.

  7. Pied Piper says:

    Hey Dave,
    there seems to be a lot of people commenting on OT’s that are getting cancer and other diseases. I know a lot of OT’s, Clears, public and plain old non Scientologists and what I can tell you is that there seems to be no difference between the disease rates across these groups. I know this is anecdotal but I wouldn’t be surprised if one did a large scale health survey there would be only a small difference in health outcomes from the general population. When we look at “OT’s” we tend to see that these are typically older people, this is a lot to do with the time and energy it takes to get there, the money required etc. Most people are middle aged and successful before they can afford it. Now when we look at health stats we can see that the disease rates go up dramatically from middle to late age groups. An interesting stat is that 25% of the population are deceased by the age of 65.
    Then we need to look at the claims of the tech as regards to psychosomatic illnesses. As far as I can tell all of Rons claims on this subject have never been studied thoroughly scientifically and really when you look at it honestly, psychosomatic illness is not a high percentage of illness experienced by humans anyway. Medical science has come a very very long way since Rons time and has shown the true causes of most illnesses. Whilst I have no doubt that any Scientologist up the bridge has had many wonderful gains and that from a spiritual point of view they are far in front of the average human to confront the challenges of disease in the end only the medical profession will save them. This is a stat that you cant deny, just ask Steve Jobs about magical herbs/diet and spiritual enlightenment and wether it saved him from cancer.

    We then have the accusation that the new perverted OT levels have something to do with all this cancer and disease!

    I assume Ron himself audited on the pure pre Miscavige tech, look at the way he died, doesn’t seem too “OT” to me.

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